Schori & Beers In Unholy Alliance To Destroy Orthodox Episcopal Dioceses and Parishes

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
12/11/2007

In sworn testimony given in depositions before the trial of parishes leaving The Episcopal Church in a Fairfax County Court, Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori stated that she will never allow a diocese to sell a church property to an orthodox Anglican Church, but the diocese may sell the church property for any other purpose, even and including a saloon.

When David Booth Beers took the stand, he said, under questioning, that if the national church adopted a non-Christian faith and declared holy war on the United States, a diocese would still not have the authority to withdraw from the national church.

Here is what their verbatim testimony revealed. The first person questioned was Mrs. Jefferts Schori, TEC Presiding Bishop.

Question: What is your policy (about church property)?

Schori: That a diocese may negotiate a fair price with those who wish to purchase church property. We have a fiduciary responsibility to see that that happens, but I will not encourage those who wish to do so to find such a resolution with the diocesan leadership if they plan to affiliate with another part of the Anglican Communion.

Question: If the departing congregation were to chose to affiliate with some other organization, would you encourage that?

Schori: In that case, I am less interested. I believe the national church has relatively little interest if the congregation wishes to leave and become a community church, if the diocese negotiates a fair price.

Question: Do you view the rise of CANA as a provocation?

Schori: I think it is unhelpful.

Question: Do you view CANA as a threat to the Episcopal Church?

Schori: Not in the large sense, no.

Question: In any sense?

Schori: It is a challenge.

Question: To what extent are you concerned that other congregations might chose to follow and join CANA?

Schori: I am less concerned about that than I am about confusion of those within the Episcopal Church and those outside the Episcopal Church.

ON NEGOTIATIONS.

Question: You were aware, were you not, that the protocol called for amicable negotiations over the disposition of the congregation's church property, correct?

Schori: I believe so.

Question: And then at some point, Bishop Lee terminated those negotiations, even before they got started; did he not?

Schori: I cannot answer that.

Question: Did you tell Bishop Lee to pull out of negotiations with the 11 congregations?

Schori: I told Bishop Lee that I could not support negotiations for sale, if the congregations intended to set up as other parts of the Anglican Communion.

Question: But if the congregations had chosen to affiliate with other organizations, you would not have interfered with Bishop Lee's prerogative, would you?

Schori: Depending on what the mission's strategy, what the mission strategy said about where they were going, and provided that he negotiated a fair price.

Question: If a congregation decided to leave and become Methodist --

Schori: Uh huh.

Question: Would you be willing to allow the local bishop to negotiate a resolution with the departing congregation?

Schori: I really think it is up to the Bishop. I am not going to interfere, unless it is contrary to the mission strategy of the Episcopal Church.

Question: Does the mission strategy of the Episcopal Church include preventing other Primates of the Anglican Communion establishing missions in the United States?

Schori: It violates our integrity as a church.

Question: You were at a meeting of the Primates in Tanzania earlier this year, correct?

Schori: Uh-huh.

Question: And the Primates issued a communique at the conclusion of that meeting, did they not?

Schori: Uh-huh.

Question: The communique was unanimous, was it not?

Schori: Everyone in the room more or less agreed to its form and wording.

Question: Including yourself?

Schori: I said I would take it back to the House of Bishops.

Question: Did you approve it?

Schori: There were lots of things within it that I found objectionable. I said I would take it back to the House of Bishops.

Question: So you did not vote yes or no?

Schori: Nobody voted.

Question: What response, if any, did you receive to your statement that you would take it back to the House of Bishops?

Schori: It was accepted.

Question: The communique asked the Episcopal Church to suspend all litigation with local congregations, did it not?

Schori: It encouraged that.

Question: But you refused to suspend the litigation, did you not?

Schori: I cannot suspend what I have a fiduciary duty to protect.

Question: Is it your contention that you had a fiduciary obligation to commence litigation against the 11 CANA congregations?

Schori: I believe I have a fiduciary responsibility to protect the assets of the Episcopal Church for the mission of the Episcopal Church.

Question: Even if the CANA congregations had paid fair market value for the property?

Schori: I believe it is inappropriate for the church in Nigeria to set up congregations,, purporting to be parts of the Anglican Communion here in the United States.

Question: So you would refuse to allow congregations to purchase the church buildings they had been using, regardless of the amount of money they wanted to pay, if they were going to affiliate with another province of the Anglican Communion.

Schori: That has been my position.

Question: ...in many cases, property has been sold by the Episcopal Church in the last four years for secular purposes, correct?

Schori: I don't have any particular information, but I imagine that that is the case.

Question: You are not aware whether a former Episcopal building is currently being used as a saloon?

Schori: I have no idea.

Question: Would the diocese have the authority to do that?

Schori: They could. It certainly happened the other way around frequently enough in Nevada.

Question: It goes both ways in that state. I just want to make sure. So you have issued no restrictions that would preclude a diocese from selling formally consecrated buildings for secular purposes; correct?

Schori: Correct.

Question: And you have issued no restrictions that world preclude a diocese from selling property to another denomination, correct?

Schori: Yes, I have.

Question: What other denominations would you preclude a diocese from selling property to?

Schori: Well, I think there is some debate whether CANA is another denomination or not.

Question: Let me use another example, the Baptist --

Schori: Uh-huh.

Question: ---you have not issued any instructions to dioceses to bar a sale of formally consecrated property to a Baptist denomination, have you?

Schori: No.

Question: And who objected to the Episcopal Church's view on homosexuality?

Schori: Well, the usual suspects, the Archbishops of Rwanda and Nigeria, Uganda.

IN TESTIMONY given by David Booth Beers, Mrs. Jefferts Schori's attorney, the lawyer expounded on the relationship between dioceses and the national church.

Here is his verbatim testimony.

Question: Does a Diocese have any power to force the national church to abide by its Constitutions and Canons?

Beers: It has the similar authority to institute disciplinary proceedings against clergy, presiding bishop and other clergy in the National Church. It has the same right to --- at the ballot box with other Dioceses, to work a change in the rules of the church or in the actions of the church, but generally speaking that's about it...it can withhold funds, to try to persuade the National Church to change its course.

Question: Would the same be true of the parish, it could withhold funds to persuade the Diocese to change its course?

Beers: There are three ways in which the Diocese raises money from its congregations, one of those is mandatory, it's across the board. The others are somewhat different.

Question: Does a parish have the authority under any circumstances to withdraw from the Diocese?

Beers: No.

Question: Does the parish have any authority to decide to be part of a different diocese?

Beers: No.

Question: Does the Diocese have any authority to withdraw from the Episcopal Church?

Beers: No.

Question: Are there any circumstances under which the parish would have the authority to withdraw from the Diocese?

Beers: Not as a parish. The congregants could leave.

Question: Are there any circumstances under which a diocese could withdraw from the Episcopal Church?

Beers: No. Oh, with consent. I'm sorry.

Question: You're talking about without consent.

Beers Without consent.

Question: On its own, unilaterally?

Beers: Right. My answer stands.

Question: So if, for example, the -- the National Church would adopt a non-Christian faith and declare holy war on the United States, the Diocese would not have the authority to withdraw?

Beers: No.

Question: And the same thing, if the National church would adopt a non-Christian faith and declare holy war on the United States, a parish would not have the authority to withdraw, is that ---

Beers: That's correct.

Question: What's your compensation arrangement with the Episcopal Church for serving as chancellor?

Beers: In my capacity as chancellor to the Presiding Bishop?

Question: Yes.

Beers: I do not receive compensation for matters strictly related to my role as chancellor. I receive expenses.

Question: Do you receive compensation for serving the Episcopal Church as its attorney?

Beers: Yes.

Question: What is your compensation arrangement?

Beers: I think that's...I object to that as private.

Question: Are you charging the Episcopal Church for appearing here today to testify as the Rule 4:5(b)(6), designee?

Ms. Kostel: I think that's objectionable as well.

Mr. Peterson: I don't think so.

Question: can you answer my question, please?

Beers: No.

Question: You're refusing to answer my question?

Beers: I am.

Question: What is the basis for refusing to answer my questions?

Beers: I don't have to give a basis.

Question: Are you asserting privilege?

Ms. Kostel: Yes.

Mr. Peterson: What's the basis for your claim of privilege?

Ms. Kostel: He's -- his fee arrangements are between him and the Presiding Bishop.

Question: Are you being compensated for appearing here today. I'm entitled to explore that.

Beers: No, I am not being compensated for my appearance in this deposition.